A Trans Discussion

[TpregGurl]

Let's clarify some things...transgender is not transsexual...yes, I know that the mainstream media and the medical establishment use "transgender" as an umbrella term, but that's only to further their agendas...for example, I am not transgender (i.e. transitioning my gender)...I've always been a woman (gender identity/expression)...and now transitioning my sex (biological/anatomical sex) - i.e. transsexual - to the extent that medical technology allows...female-to-male transsexuals have little problem being pregnant...they are genetic females...and it's beyond me why they would post on "Mpreg"...they are "Fpreg"...unless they don't know the difference between sex and gender...I know they identify as men and, accordingly, I describe them with the male pronoun (he), but they ARE genetic females...if we're going to talk about genetic male pregnancy, let's talk about male-to-female transsexuals...

[FweepFwopFwoop]

Let's clarify some things...transgender is not transsexual...yes, I know that the mainstream media and the medical establishment use "transgender" as an umbrella term, but that's only to further their agendas...for example, I am not transgender (i.e. transitioning my gender)...I've always been a woman (gender identity/expression)...and now transitioning my sex (biological/anatomical sex) - i.e. transsexual - to the extent that medical technology allows...female-to-male transsexuals have little problem being pregnant...they are genetic females...and it's beyond me why they would post on "Mpreg"...they are "Fpreg"...unless they don't know the difference between sex and gender...I know they identify as men and, accordingly, I describe them with the male pronoun (he), but they ARE genetic females...if we're going to talk about genetic male pregnancy, let's talk about male-to-female transsexuals...

Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. FtM transsexuals often take hormones to alter their bodoes, along with surgeries. I plam on both taking hprmones and getting whatever surgeries I can to transition, thus being closer to a male physically.But a person's physical sex doesn't matter. Regardless of one's genitalia, or the hormones they had prior to hormone replacement therapy, if someone claims to be male, then they are male. End of story.

[TpregGurl]

Well, sis...I wish that were true...you are confusing sex (biological/anatomical), e.g. male or female, in the binary perspective, with gender (identity/expression), e.g. man or woman...thus, anyone can claim to be a man or a woman, but male or female (or intersex) is defined at birth...hormones change only your body chemistry, not your genetics...even if you transition as a teen...

An FTM transsexual can look like a male with clothes on, but will not have a real, functional penis...and a MTF transsexual, if she tranitions early, may look like a female, but she won't have ovaries, a uterus or a real vagina...with advances in medical technology, those facts may change, but, for now, they are facts...

As a MTF transsexual I wish it were different, but it isn't...and I'm for truth, not fantasy...especially transgender fantasies that are eroding exisiting transsexual rights...

Let's clarify some things...transgender is not transsexual...yes, I know that the mainstream media and the medical establishment use "transgender" as an umbrella term, but that's only to further their agendas...for example, I am not transgender (i.e. transitioning my gender)...I've always been a woman (gender identity/expression)...and now transitioning my sex (biological/anatomical sex) - i.e. transsexual - to the extent that medical technology allows...female-to-male transsexuals have little problem being pregnant...they are genetic females...and it's beyond me why they would post on "Mpreg"...they are "Fpreg"...unless they don't know the difference between sex and gender...I know they identify as men and, accordingly, I describe them with the male pronoun (he), but they ARE genetic females...if we're going to talk about genetic male pregnancy, let's talk about male-to-female transsexuals...

Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. FtM transsexuals often take hormones to alter their bodoes, along with surgeries. I plam on both taking hprmones and getting whatever surgeries I can to transition, thus being closer to a male physically.But a person's physical sex doesn't matter. Regardless of one's genitalia, or the hormones they had prior to hormone replacement therapy, if someone claims to be male, then they are male. End of story.

[InkingIncubus]

I'm sorry I can't provide a thought-out reply at this time, although I would like to, but I will say that I believe this topic should have its own thread for friendly debate so that this thread can stick to welcoming etc.

PreggyShelly, many things you have said I find quite offensive and an attack to our personal identities. Please don't confuse this as anger- I am merely stating my opinions and feelings. I would be more than happy to explain how, but today is going to be Hell on earth for my workload today.

As a quick piece of advice, though, I would suggest that you do not call a transmale "sis." It's true, I do often call women and girls "dude" as an expression of a person, but I believe society has developed it into being androgynous, and I have not recieved complaints yet.

Sis however, and I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, if directed at me would make me feel extremely hurt and scared. By calling me sis, you 1- out me, thus putting me in mental and physical danger and 2- express to me that my mental identity is not real or just a "phase", or that I am not real and my feelings or opinions illegitimate .

It is my preference, and I know it is the preference of most if not all trans* people I know, not to call them by their birth-assigned-sex when passing in public.

Honestly if someone called me sis or a woman while I was passing and they new, I'm not sure if I would cry on the spot or punch them in the nose.

That may be the hormones talking. x_x

Unfortunately this is all I have time for. x_x. I'm not meaning to hurt or offend, merely teach and critique so we can all live happy, comfortable lives.

Actually, if anyone wouldn't mind, I would love to create a thread for this discussion. I love organizing information and preparing for educational debates. Unfortunately I would have to do it tomorrow in the evening (possibly around 8pm-9pm est.). I could include polls, background information, definitions/FAQ, whatever to have a neutral opening to the panel. Is this okay with everyone? If so, I'll link it here after it is done being created.

[FweepFwopFwoop]

Well, sis...I wish that were true...you are confusing sex (biological/anatomical), e.g. male or female, in the binary perspective, with gender (identity/expression), e.g. man or woman...thus, anyone can claim to be a man or a woman, but male or female (or intersex) is defined at birth...hormones change only your body chemistry, not your genetics...even if you transition as a teen...

An FTM transsexual can look like a male with clothes on, but will not have a real, functional penis...and a MTF transsexual, if she tranitions early, may look like a female, but she won't have ovaries, a uterus or a real vagina...with advances in medical technology, those facts may change, but, for now, they are facts...

As a MTF transsexual I wish it were different, but it isn't...and I'm for truth, not fantasy...especially transgender fantasies that are eroding exisiting transsexual rights...

Let's clarify some things...transgender is not transsexual...yes, I know that the mainstream media and the medical establishment use "transgender" as an umbrella term, but that's only to further their agendas...for example, I am not transgender (i.e. transitioning my gender)...I've always been a woman (gender identity/expression)...and now transitioning my sex (biological/anatomical sex) - i.e. transsexual - to the extent that medical technology allows...female-to-male transsexuals have little problem being pregnant...they are genetic females...and it's beyond me why they would post on "Mpreg"...they are "Fpreg"...unless they don't know the difference between sex and gender...I know they identify as men and, accordingly, I describe them with the male pronoun (he), but they ARE genetic females...if we're going to talk about genetic male pregnancy, let's talk about male-to-female transsexuals...

Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. FtM transsexuals often take hormones to alter their bodoes, along with surgeries. I plam on both taking hprmones and getting whatever surgeries I can to transition, thus being closer to a male physically.But a person's physical sex doesn't matter. Regardless of one's genitalia, or the hormones they had prior to hormone replacement therapy, if someone claims to be male, then they are male. End of story.

Did you call me SIS? I EXPLICITLY said that I am a male, and you call me SIS?

I'm sorry I can't provide a thought-out reply at this time, although I would like to, but I will say that I believe this topic should have its own thread for friendly debate so that this thread can stick to welcoming etc.

PreggyShelly, many things you have said I find quite offensive and an attack to our personal identities. Please don't confuse this as anger- I am merely stating my opinions and feelings. I would be more than happy to explain how, but today is going to be Hell on earth for my workload today.

As a quick piece of advice, though, I would suggest that you do not call a transmale "sis." It's true, I do often call women and girls "dude" as an expression of a person, but I believe society has developed it into being androgynous, and I have not recieved complaints yet.

Sis however, and I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, if directed at me would make me feel extremely hurt and scared. By calling me sis, you 1- out me, thus putting me in mental and physical danger and 2- express to me that my mental identity is not real or just a "phase", or that I am not real and my feelings or opinions illegitimate .

It is my preference, and I know it is the preference of most if not all trans* people I know, not to call them by their birth-assigned-sex when passing in public.

Honestly if someone called me sis or a woman while I was passing and they new, I'm not sure if I would cry on the spot or punch them in the nose.

That may be the hormones talking. x_x

Unfortunately this is all I have time for. x_x. I'm not meaning to hurt or offend, merely teach and critique so we can all live happy, comfortable lives.

You're right, this shouldn't be a thread for debate. I made this as a thread where trans folks could all chat and be friends. :)

[InkingIncubus]

Did you call me SIS? I EXPLICITLY said that I am a male, and you call me SIS?

The reason I brought this up to her neutrally and in an informative manner is because I know a lot of trans*, LGBetc., and crossdressing people like to sometimes call people "sweetie," "hun," "honey," "girl," etc. as a gesture of endearment as some others like to call people "bro" or "dude" (as I mentioned I do, but I would not call a transwoman "bro"). Although "sis" was definitely not appropriate, it could be Shelly's way of expressing that endearment if we misunderstood. Although I would appreciate something like "hun" or whatever, I do feel like "sis" is a probable habit that needs to be broken.

Online communication is quite testy... x_x

[TheKicking]

Okay, I split the thread for you. Just keep it civil, guys.

[TpregGurl]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone...I have NEVER used the expression "bro"...I was using a term of endearment that I use with males as well as females...indeed, if I know someone I'd likely call them "darling"...moreover, I know that the only way to know if someone is a man or a woman or some other gender identity is to ask them...

But let's get the essence of the debate...I wasn't stating an opinion...I was stating a fact...man and woman are the gender terms, if we are talking binary identities or expressions...male and female, are the biological sex terms, that biology usually expressed in anatomy...I may have a sex change, but that procedure would be cosmetic...I may look like a female, but my chromosomes will remain male...

And why is this distinction important?...because it's lack is leading to rights issues...for example, transgender rights campaigns invoking a legislative backlash to prevent transsexual women, including post-ops, having spousal rights in Texas...that's transsexual women (MTF) not transsexual men (FTM)...

Let's not forget that the accelerating rate of exceptionally brutal trans murders worldwide - currently around 20/month - are almost entirely of transsexual women...while FTM men have surgical challenges, most of the social challenges are borne by MTFs...

And please note the neutral tone of my observations...I'm not intending to offend anyone...but I will not deny reality...

[Z_lastname]

Let's clarify some things...transgender is not transsexual...yes, I know that the mainstream media and the medical establishment use "transgender" as an umbrella term, but that's only to further their agendas...for example, I am not transgender (i.e. transitioning my gender)...I've always been a woman (gender identity/expression)...and now transitioning my sex (biological/anatomical sex) - i.e. transsexual - to the extent that medical technology allows...female-to-male transsexuals have little problem being pregnant...they are genetic females...and it's beyond me why they would post on "Mpreg"...they are "Fpreg"...unless they don't know the difference between sex and gender...I know they identify as men and, accordingly, I describe them with the male pronoun (he), but they ARE genetic females...if we're going to talk about genetic male pregnancy, let's talk about male-to-female transsexuals...

In my opinion, mpreg is anyone who identifies as male getting pregnant, be them trans men or otherwise. Fpreg is anyone who identifies as female getting pregnant, trans women or otherwise. To say that pregnant trans men are fpreg is, in my opinion, misgendering trans men. As a trans man, if I got pregnant I would feel I would fall into the "mpreg" category, not the fpreg. Yes, trans men are assigned the female sex at birth based on gender, but their identity should not be overruled by their reproductive system.
As someone who is not the media, but a volunteer with trans youth, we use transgender as an umbrella term, for all people who identify as a gender besides the one they were born with. We don't often use transsexual because sometimes people think it means attraction to trans people, and because some people feel the word is outdated and medical and don't feel comfortable with it. Medical establishment uses words such as transsexual, gender identity disorder, gender dysphoria, but not transgender.
Female to males can get pregnant, but it does involve not getting certain surgeries, and going off hormones for a while so their reproductive system can resume it's previous course.

Sorry, but as a trans man, I am not okay with being in the fpreg category. I am a man, and wish to be treated like all other men, and therefore, am in the mpreg category.

[TpregGurl]

Of course, Calder...you are entitled to call yourself whatever you want...regardless, the medical establishment issue I was addressing is the inclusion of the transsexual birth defect with psychological issues arising from gender identity issues (Gender Identity Disorder in DSM-IV; Gender Incongruence in DSM-V))...transsexual folk like myself have no gender incongruence to be addressed by psychiatrists; they have anatomical incongruence to be addressed by surgeons, sadly only cosmetically, and many of us who are the working poor can't afford the procedures...ironically, some incarcerated murderers can have the state pay for their transitions...such is out so-called system of justice...in short, we need a medical, not a mental, diagnosis...

[Z_lastname]

Of course, Calder...you are entitled to call yourself whatever you want...regardless, the medical establishment issue I was addressing is the inclusion of the transsexual birth defect with psychological issues arising from gender identity issues (Gender Identity Disorder in DSM-IV; Gender Incongruence in DSM-V))...transsexual folk like myself have no gender incongruence to be addressed by psychiatrists; they have anatomical incongruence to be addressed by surgeons, sadly only cosmetically, and many of us who are the working poor can't afford the procedures...ironically, some incarcerated murderers can have the state pay for their transitions...such is out so-called system of justice...in short, we need a medical, not a mental, diagnosis...

My opinion on needing a medical diagnosis, rather than a mental one, is simply that we shouldnt need a diagnosis at all. As you said, our surgeries are sadly only cosmetic, so why do we need to be "mentally ill" to get them? If a woman can get a boob job with no reason other than wanting it, why do we have to be ill?

[TpregGurl]

I AM suggesting a medical, not a mental diagnosis...without a diagnosis there is no health insurance cover...thus excluding the poor amongst us from a needed medical procedure...leaving suicide or self-mutilation or prison as the only viable solutions.

[Z_lastname]

Some insurances cover boob jobs, so I don't see why they shouldn't support trans surgeries. it's a flaw with the system, not us. They system should change so that no one has to be ill, imprisoned, or suicidal just to avail of these things.

[TpregGurl]

@Calder - Of course, I agree...and I'd be curious to know which "insurances cover boob jobs" for trans folk...

Some insurances cover boob jobs, so I don't see why they shouldn't support trans surgeries. it's a flaw with the system, not us. They system should change so that no one has to be ill, imprisoned, or suicidal just to avail of these things.

[TheKicking]

Some insurances cover boob jobs, so I don't see why they shouldn't support trans surgeries. it's a flaw with the system, not us. They system should change so that no one has to be ill, imprisoned, or suicidal just to avail of these things.

They only cover boob jobs if the recipient has a medical need for wanting one. Usually it's for back and spinal issues for breast reductions, and reconstruction due to mastectomy. You need a referral from a primary care physician or specialist who can prove that you have some sort of medical diagnosis/need that would warrant any sort of breast surgery.

Anything else is considered cosmetic, and that is on your own dollar.

[TpregGurl]

@Kicking - That's my understanding...

[Z_lastname]

Some insurances cover boob jobs, so I don't see why they shouldn't support trans surgeries. it's a flaw with the system, not us. They system should change so that no one has to be ill, imprisoned, or suicidal just to avail of these things.

They only cover boob jobs if the recipient has a medical need for wanting one. Usually it's for back and spinal issues for breast reductions, and reconstruction due to mastectomy. You need a referral from a primary care physician or specialist who can prove that you have some sort of medical diagnosis/need that would warrant any sort of breast surgery.

Anything else is considered cosmetic, and that is on your own dollar.

In Ireland, you can genuinely plead that you need bigger boobs, with average sized boobs beforehand. It's unfair to people who really need chest reductions or enhancements depending on gender identity

[TpregGurl]

Come to think about it, I do know of one exception and there are maybe more among private/corporate plans...and that is Harvard Health Plan...as a member of the Board of the Harvard Gay and Lesbian Caucus I advocated and got top as well as bottom surgeries...the sad thing being that I'm not eligible...when addressing trans rights we often create change for future generations that we can't benefit from ourselves...we celebrate the victories...and mourn our own existence...